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Old 11-07-2007, 01:54 AM   #1
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Default Is it me...

...or has the fun element been taken away from this game? It might be just me being an old git, but in previous years with previous releases i'd be counting down the days till it came out.

Now i feel like i can't be bothered - its just got too tactical, too techincal, too statistical, too over-complicated?

I'm all for in depth tactical encounters - but this version doesn't have the 'bite' that i was expecting - christ it might be colours or the fact that any game i start ends in abject failure despite my numerous tactical changes and game restarts my FA Coaching badges have become obselete.

Is this what a game is now? Spending hours on end tweaking a tactic perfectly because you've bought a winger who is one inch shorter and 2 kg's lighter than his predecessor? What happened to spending days on end glued to a screen without the on pitch match engine - sticking an extra midfielder on when holding on for a draw - now you gotta spend a week setting instructions on how the little begger has to warm up.

Seriously - should i get some fresh air or get on my knees and beg for a tactic that works on a mac on 8.1?
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Old 11-07-2007, 02:22 AM   #2
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I agree wholeheartedly, I'm looking forward to installing Call Of Duty 4!
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Old 11-07-2007, 02:23 AM   #3
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Its not just you, the whole things become far too convoluted, its extremely hard to get true enjoyment out of it these days. :thdn:
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Old 11-07-2007, 02:45 AM   #4
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Well, i think you're right at some point. It did evolve to a more complicated level and the problem of such thing is that there will be lovers and haters.

The developments have been pretty logic though. Yes, i loved the simplicity of the old versions and played them over and over and over again. But on a side note also longed for more features, more to do, more possibilities. Mostly simple things like player interaction, more stats, more interaction in general.

I'm still in a neutral zone about the tactic setups. I still don't like the sliders. It doesn't feel right. I prefer a more visual approach like real coaches use as well. Like a whiteboard. I've never seen them with sliders.

I rather do the general setup, with some directions, some basic options to tick or untick and let the players try to do what you've asked of them. I mean, tactics are important, but they are a guideline. In the end it's always the players on the field. Are they in the right position, do they have the skills and how can we improve a player or his role in your approach of the game.

Followed by trainings where you can actually guide them and tell them what you expect from them, what they can do better, what they do wrong etc ... Like in real life. It's people management mostly - not slider management.

But i bet they will end up more in that direction since the slider options aren't too popular with most people. Also the Training is just a bunch of numbers and sliders that give you some insight, but many times are pretty unlogic. Why did his finishing and composure drop, even when i have it on intensive? There sure is a logic explanation once you know what it is, but most of the time it's just a guess and many times a frustration.

I do indeed think it's too much based on tactics. But on the other side, it's a digital game, not real life. But there are numerous ways to simulate it much better, i agree, and i hope they will evolve to that level soon enough.

On a positive note. I'm very happy with the new match engine! It's more logical and less of an exact science compared with the terrible 2007 release. Ok, it's still a bit strange now and then. I mean, a throw in right over the line, or too stupid you can't imagine throw it 2 meters away from a free player into the feet of the opponent. But in the old days you didn't have a 2D overview - so it could have been anything these days. Now you just see it, so i try not to bother too much.

I still have my frustrations i didn't have with the older ones (before 2007). Especially because i sometimes just don't get it. I say Forward Runs often and still he doesn't dive into that enormous space in front of him. Why? His attributes are excellent for such action. I ask him to do it. He might fail, ok, no problem, but why didn't he just try?

I would be happy to tell him after the game he might have played well, but also tell him to use that space. He might not do it straight away, or do it wrong again, but it should improve to some extent. It's also a matter of character and morale if he succeeds at your club or not. If he doesn't improve - or doesn't want to because he's stubborn. So be it, go find another club.
But if it works! Man, in the first place it gives way more satisfaction because you've actually learned him something (i'm a coach, yes!) and besides that more grip on your tactic in a logical way. You will get way more involved with players and your team instead of being happy you've find the right combination of sliders that seem to click.

CM have implemented ProZone. Not sure if it'll be an improvement, since i haven't seen / tried it yet, but it might be one way to get more insight in tactics and grip on your teams performance.

Besides the tactics i love all the extra features.

And yes, the interface design is butt ugly. But hopefully it will be solved with some custom skins coming soon most probably.

I just wait and see what will happen. The FM people never respond to such posts but i bet they do read it or get notification of it because many of the problems posted on this forum are being answered, allthough not very well most of the time

Making errors is not a bad thing, it will help evolve to a "better" level, but we are talking about a commercial product. We pay for it, so we are allowed to expect to receive a solid and good working game without flaws.

In general. I'm happy with 2008 so far. I do feel it's less exact science and more based on your players, their skills and placing them on the right position. But i've only played 2 seasons so far with just one team. I might have been lucky
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Old 11-07-2007, 03:09 AM   #5
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i actually believe putting Football Manager on your cv should be valid now a days

still i enjoy iy. but i do play other games fo fun and this game because i love football
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Old 11-07-2007, 03:50 AM   #6
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It's not just you, I'm finding it very hard to get into FM2008 but to be truthful I think CM 01/02 was the last one I could truly get addicted to.

Personally I think tactics have become too complex in their execution, there are too many variables to get screwed up and it's not easy to tell where you're getting it wrong. I think the lack of true tactical experts is testement to the fact that not many people really understant the tactical side of the game.

Rashidi and Cleon are like a two man band and if this was any other kind of strategy game there would be far more 'clued on' people discussing the game then what there is.
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Old 11-07-2007, 05:00 AM   #7
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yeah! maybe si need to realise that making the tactics not so un 'appealing' than they are, maybe people wopuld accept the 'odd' shock result and also realise that the team they have is just not good enough (if it isnt) instead of trying to work out if its their team, tactics, teamtalks...etc
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Old 11-07-2007, 08:37 PM   #8
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Back in the day - i failed GCSE's, A'Levels, lost girlfriends and missed a lot of sunshine and fresh air -

but it was worth it! I once had a save game that went on for 28 seasons! It was my first love for well over a year!

Christ i forged illness to get days off only to be hunched over me pc on 'champ'.

Now i just think - hold on i've been at work for about 10 hours today - the girlfiend is busy with work or gassing on the phone - think i'll whack on the mac and have a few games on FM08 - now before i do that i'll spend around six hours tweaking formations and going over training schedules for my next upcoming friendly against Blyth Spartans - nah sod that i'll stick Sky Sports on for a bit.

I'm glad people seem to agree with me on some sort of level - so i'll put the razorblades away for a while.

If you'd like to talk about this privatly visit - www.ihavenotgottimetotweakmyfourfourtwo.co.uk
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Old 11-07-2007, 08:42 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally posted by Xs:

I'm still in a neutral zone about the tactic setups. I still don't like the sliders. It doesn't feel right. I prefer a more visual approach like real coaches use as well. Like a whiteboard. I've never seen them with sliders.
I can't recall Peter Reid in the Sunderland dressing room during the documentory Premier Passions with a few sliders like - maybe i missed it.

Thats it - Peter Reid's Football Manager 2009:

Defensive 'Slider'

Focking Do Em In
- break they barstewart legs
- effin ruff em up
- give em a slap
- gerrup tha arses
- quick slap.
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Old 11-08-2007, 11:25 AM   #10
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I have to whole heartedly agree guys. The last few releases of FM have been pretentious and over complicated. It's been a bit of selfish indulgence I feel on the part of the programmers.

But in truth, they have created a game that makes ALL the right noises, but NONE of the right actions. They have created my ex-girlfriend... haha.

They have added that "addictiveness" rating thingy on the front page of your game... and the only reason you have been playing for 38 hours is to set up your training and tactics...

I play a 4-4-2, and I have spent hours upon hours trying to find the right formulae. Only to find it doesn't exist. If I happen to move the "creative freedom" slider one tiny notch... then Eastwood starts to try "ronaldo-esque" fancy tricks compared to just running in a straight line... whats that about?

If you want to add a usefull feature, then add a "difficulty" level for varying gamers.

Keep tweaking guys.. we will get there by 2012... then we can watch the olympics.
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