morgantjg

Is it time SI bit the bullet and added difficulty levels to the game?

The reason I ask is that since the producers developed a fetish for sliders the game has become very instable. The current match engine 8.01 is, and lets face it, it really is, pretty unwell. If you play a standard default tactic it is reasonable watch, bar the glaring bugs such as the missed one on ones and the amount of chances. But if you develop your own tactic there is so much complexity and so many options that the robustness of the match engine is thoroughly tested, and in my opinion exposed massively to criticism. I am playing with a 442 variant, nothing particularly outlandish, yet I have games where the shots on goal stats are in the 50's with a constant stream of tap in chances missed.

I have tried one of the tactics someone else developed (The Winning V3.02) and I finished 3rd in the Premier League with 104 goals AGAINST!

The match engine is so extreme a lot of the time. Ridiculously the pre match team talk still pretty much guarantees a goal in the first 2 minutes if you pick the wrong option (Or forget to do it, PLEASE PUT A CONFIRMATION SCREEN IN SAYING "DO YOU REALLY WANT TO PROCEED WITH ACKNOWLEDGING YOUR PLAYERS?"), the AI can still score at the flick of a switch by changing tactics and there are still too many extreme swings and comebacks and overall far too many chances and too many goals.

I think all this is down to the sheer number of possible tactical options. Its way OTT and completely inaccessible. There have got to be something like a million (Probably more?) possible tactical combinations currently. How can SI possibly ensure they all work as they should?

My recommendations:

1 - Release the patch to sort the chances/one on ones/goal bonanza problem. With this sorted FM08 would be back to being a pretty solid game. It is currently unplayable if you are a lover of reasonably-realistic statistics. (Shots for and against in matches and goals for and against over a season).

2 - For future versions have difficulty levels or even game modes, for example 'Old School' featuring CM2-esque gameplay with less sliders where good players and a killer tactic which doesn't need tweaking are enough through to 'Cleon Factor' where there are pages and pages of sliders with an extreme level of difficulty.

I just think there are 2 defined types of FM gamer. The 'download and play' brigade like me who download someone elses tactic and wish it would work without tweaking and concentrate on buying and developing players etc, and those with a things for slidy bars and tactical experimentation and refinement. Both are valid approaches to the game, but it seems as though only one is currently being catered for.

Klimowicz

FM is, and will always be, a simulation game. it's not as pick up and play as fm05 was, but that was the first venture away from the CM series. if it stuck to a pick up and play formula, then many more players would have boycotted the series due to the lack of a challenge.

while your suggestion would incorperate players who don't want to worry about details, the next game would not come out in october as usual, but it would take longer to develope, and there will still be initial bugs and data issues, so it would still require a patch or two.

if you're not new to the FM series, you would know that final patches come out in february after the january transfer window, and they include fixes from acumilated bug reports from us. they already did us a favor by releasing the beta patch before 8.0.1.

mitja

I think you are right about "a million (Probably more?) possible tactical combinations currently. How can SI possibly ensure they all work as they should?".


"pick&play game" would defenetly be a step back for me. only if SI wants to get FIFA customers.


match engine, tactics (too much influence). also I agree that this current tactical system isn't good and it doesn't suite this (more sopfistcated ME) anymore. actually I'm having a thread on the same metter.


team talks? I like the idea and that's all. agree with you.


difficulty levels? not for it. if you want easy game play with chelsea, hard...derby. it should be like that, even though I think on this ME it's allmost the same.


PS what kind of enjoy is to "download and play"

heathxxx

Cant say I agree with introducing difficulty levels into the FM series.

If SI decided to do a spin-off "lite" version however, then that's a different matter altogether, though I doubt it would happen.

Granted, the game is becoming increasingly more difficult, more involved, perhaps more time consuming to master. For me though, this is entirely what sets it apart from the "pick up & play" alternatives, which can very easily be mastered and therefore offer limited longevity and very little challenge.

Perhaps ask yourself this question - do I enjoy more a game in which I can more or less guarentee success, or do I want to play a game that continually challenges me?

I'm not having a go, but you have to understand that the general demand is for FM to continue as a simulation and offer realism therefore I would assume that fuure releases may progressively get even more "difficult".

Insofar as creating tactics or downloading tactics, I do both. I can honestly say that both ways, with a bit of time and effort, adapting tactics to suit my players proves very rewarding. A little time spent tweeking tactics at the start can really make a difference long term.

heathxxx

Just thought I would mention also that there is a form of difficulty level built into the game.

At the start you can select your starting reputation, from unknown to former international. Try picking a lower league club with former international and see just how much easier it is.

djht

I have said this before but difficulty levels should definitely be introduced. The level should be based on the 'activeness' of the ai manager. I.e. At normal difficulty the ai manager will, as it does now, tweak its tactics continually throughout individual matches. On 'easy', the ai will essentially start with a tactic and largely stick with it, changing it during the match with far lower frequency.

To those who say that it will be a 'step backwards' and encourage casual gamers to 'stick with FIFA'... How many of you 'experts' and 'tactical gurus' change your tactics hundreds of times during a match like the ai currently does? The current state of the ai is not even a realistic reflection of management. Even if it is, this is a computer game. We are not paid professional football managers. Also, why deny casual gamers (who represent probably the majority of FM gamers) enjoyment from the game? With difficulty levels you can still play the game with its full complexity. Without difficulty levels the game may have to make a 'backward step' because SI will eventually have to simplify the game so that it's 'playable' for the majority of gamers.

Look where we are after the last three releases (FM 2006, 07, 08). The game is at a crisis point. The classic CMs and the success they brought was based on playability, not complexity.

mitja

yes but also you played it allmost on atari's.

mitja

morgantjg

Some great responses, which I think pretty much back up the idea I had of there being two camps, the tacticians and the empire builders.

Personally I play FM, not to simulate football to the nth degree of tactical realism, but as a release, a game with all the real players and teams in the positions they should be in (FM's database is superb) with the chance of leading my team to glory.

I used to play CM religiously, sticking with the killer tactic of the version everytime. Although success was guaranteed as long as I built the squad properly, I still couldn't stop playing it. I'm not suggesting we go back to the days of the Michael Owen 4-3-3 and not being able to lose, but I think there are a lot of people who would like to be able to lead their favourite team to glory, without sacrificing their lives to a study of slider-combination-effect-outputs.

gunnerfan

Crisis point?? You must be joking! Yes, there have been some irritating bugs, and the match engine does some funky things, but to say the game is at crisis point is pure hyperbole.

Basically, your "crisis" is that you can't just download a "killer tactic" and win-win-win.

I remain unconvinced that "difficulty levels" are in any way desirable, because the game just isn't that difficult if you take the time to learn the nuances (and not that much time, at that). Besides, any splitting of the game into difficulty levels will necessitate the development of submodules within the game, the development of which will crowd out other improvements that could be made.