Amaroq

I'm not satisfied with the current Team Talks mechanic.

I feel like its a "Guess the right answer" mechanic, and after having a couple team-talks blow up in my face - was that 0-9 hammering really necessary to make the point? - it still feels that way in FM'08.

One of the reasons I've been unhappy is that I don't feel it addresses the sorts of things my managers would tell me before matches .. and I don't think I ever "took it wrong", no matter what my manager said.

Rarely do the options I'm presented with really express what I want to say, as a manager.

Some of the team-talks that I can give have an impact at odds with my interpretation of the team-talk - the way I imagine delivering the team-talk. That sort of ambiguity makes the impact of the team-talk feel random.

Worse, some of the talks that seem to have a fairly innocuous phrasing have very large impacts.

I'd like to see an update to this are for FM'09 or FM'10 which addresses all of those areas.

* * * * *

Let me outline what I think the current mechanic is:

There are five choices presented to you, from a possible list of about ten, and they directly impact three emotional variables for your players:
<LI> Pressure - you can make a player more relaxed with talks like "Enjoy the game", or make him feel more pressure with talks like "I expect a win".
<LI> Motivation - you can make a player more motivated, or you can leave them demotivated.
<LI> Morale - you can give a player's spirits a lift, or you can make him unhappy / angry with you.

The feedback often tells you this, pretty much directly: "Looked happy, seemed demotivated".

Unfortunately, it feels all too easy to "Miss" and have your team-talk backfire on you - and that's very frustrating when it happens. See, for example, Best ... game ... ever !! - a "reasonable" team-talk blew up in his face, with very negative results.

That's offset by a feeling that every now and then you "get it right" and your team storms back from 0-2 down at the half to win 4-2...

... but that has its downside when an AI manager says exactly the right thing at halftime, and you don't feel like there's any way you can counteract it.

* * * * *

What I would like to see is a system with a lot more gentle "positive" impact options, and a lot less "whammy" results.

I'd also like to see an area which "expands" on the talk - maybe putting it into a two-sentence form, and/or describing the likely effects of it.

The idea I had was, why not have team-talks that feed directly into players' mental attributes? To couch it in "gamey" terms, you might almost have talks that give each player a 1- or 2- point attribute boost in specific mental attributes, as a result of what you told them.

In this scheme, team-talk options might be:

<LI> Work Hard
- Pre: I want to see you guys work hard for each other
- HT: We've got to work harder in the second half
- Full (W/D): Your hard work paid off
- Full (L): We've got to work harder next game
Impact: increased Work Rate
<LI> Play together
- Pre: I want you guys to play together as a team today
- HT: We've got to play more as a team in the second half
- Full (W/D): You guys worked well together today
- Full (L): We've got to stick together as a team
Impact: increased Team Work
<LI> Hold your shape
- Pre: Remember, I want you guys to hold your shape today.
- HT: We've got to hold our shape better in the second half.
- Full (0/1 goal conceded): You held your shape well today.
- Full (2+ goals allowed): We've got to hold our defensive shape better.
Impact: increased Positioning
<LI> Give each other options
- Pre: I want to see you guys moving well, giving each other options today.
- HT: We've got to have better movement in the second half. Give each other options!
- Full (2+ goals scored): The way you guys moved for each other really paid off today.
- Full (0/1 goal scored): We've got to have better off the ball movement.
Impact: increased Off The Ball
<LI> Less Mistakes
- Pre: I want to see you guys take care of the ball today. We can't afford to make mental mistakes.
- HT: We've got to make better decisions in the second half. Mistakes are killing us.
- Full (W/D): We made good decisions today, and avoided mistakes.
- Full (L): We've got to make better decisions and take care of the ball
Impact: increased Decisions
<LI> Concentrate
- Pre: I want you to stay focused today.
- HT: We've got to stay better focused in the second half.
- Full (W/D): Way to keep your concentration lads.
- Full (L): We've got to keep our concentration better.
Impact: increased Concentration
<LI> Be More Aggressive
- Pre: We've got to come out aggressive today. It's going to be a real scrap.
- HT: We've got to be more aggressive in the second half.
- Full (W/D): Our aggressive outlook really paid off today.
- Full (L): We just have to be more aggressive.
Impact: increased Aggressiveness
<LI> Who Wants It More?
- Pre: A game like this is all about will. Who wants it more?
- HT: We can win this. We just have to want it more than they do.
- Full (W/D): Your determination really paid off in the second half.
- Full (L): We can't quit on a game when we're behind.
Impact: increased Determination

These could be woven in amongst the existing options: we'd still want a way to praise and criticize players, of course. We need a way to relax nervous players before a big match, or get them fired up for a big performance. We'd still want a high-risk high-reward "Kick the boot at them" option at half-time and full-time, of course.

I'm not saying to do away with those - and obviously, some of these might be situational, e.g., the Determination full-time option wouldn't apply for a game we led 3-0 at halftime, so it simply wouldn't be presented.

Now, one aspect of the current complexity which works is that the same team-talk doesn't work the same on all players; I know its a bit controversial, but I'd want most of these to work for most players most of the time. The idea is that they're low-risk, low-reward options.

Still, each of these talks could have some personalities or situations that they don't work for - for example, a player in conflict with one of the other players on the pitch might react negatively to the "Play together". A player with poor Teamwork might selfishly ignore the "Give each other options" team-talk. A not-Brave player might have trouble overcoming his fear to be more Aggressive.

It would also require an "Effect gets nerfed if overused" mechanic; otherwise we'd just ask our goalkeeper to Concentrate every match.

* * * * *

I'd also like to see our personality as expressed in our team-talks play a bigger part in the game.

I'd like to feel like personalities other than "cheerful and encouraging" had a chance of succeeding: the perfectionist "its never good enough" persona, the "put the fear of god into them" persona, the "professor" persona (minimal emotion shown), and the "gruff, rarely praises you" persona should all be viable strategies, as long as we're consistent.

Of course, different player personalities should want different ones - but looking at real coaches and managers, those seem to be the key types that are "missing" from our current scheme.

Important to this, however: we need to be able to criticize our players after a win. I know that that doesn't make a lot of sense on the surface, but I've heard plenty of interviews with real players (multiple sports) where a critique after a sloppy win was crucial for their development.

In FM, that approach doesn't really work - so many players react negatively to criticism that its tough to dish out.

Lastly, manager personality could even feed in to player development. For example, if I prefer Determined, Aggressive play and I express that by using those team-talk options fairly frequently, my youth might develop to be more Determined and Aggressive than they would otherwise.

A different manager, who focused on Teamwork and Moving For Each Other might be rewarded with players who gradually increase their Team Work and Off the Ball, while a third who favoured Concentration and good Decisions might be rewarded in those areas.

* * * * *

The final area which I'd want to see improved is the feedback section.

First, I'd reserve the "Didn't Seem To Be Listening" result for players who have lost confidence in their manager as shown in a Slight or Major concern - or players who had a specific negative reaction to the specific team-talk given, as in the examples I gave five paragraphs above.

Second, I'd supplement the feedback with a few more options, to make the "Nothing specific noted" much more rare. I'm not sure what all the options should be - but maybe something to touch on how the player played as a result. For example, if a guy was on a 6 at halftime, and after my team talk, he scored two goals and raised himself to an 8 .. that's not "Nothing specific noted", that's "Played much better in 2nd half."

Finally, I'd add some e-mails from the Assistant about our team-talks, if we're consistently making the same mistake - in the current scheme, for example, "Not giving the players enough credit", maybe my Assistant would warn me about it before its become a major concern for half my squad! There are plenty of other spots, too, if my team talks are never negative, and the consequence of that is that the team is becoming complacent, my Assistant might tell me that also.

* * * * *

We've had the existing team-talk mechanism for three versions, now.

I think its time for an overhaul.

What do you guys think?

Fqdd

i think what they shouldn't do is make your players look like stupid retards...i mean you're 3-0 nill up at half-time, no matter what you say, they should know they have to hold their game...but no, they always manage to screw things over..

copperhorse21

Another brilliant post for another infuriating section of the game. Have you thought about being a tester for the game? With your programming background, it seems like you'd be able to offer reasonable improvements without the programmers having to pull all their hair out with coding issues...

Dave C

The basic problem with team-talks, and the pre-match media too, is the complete lack of options.
What annoys me most is the "2-0 factor" in team-talks.
You can't just encourage your team to keep going at 2-0. You can either tell them your pleased, which is like saying they've done all they need to do, or tell them not to let their performance drop, which upsets them.



In terms of the team-talk, I'd change the way it's set up.

Firstly, I'd have a "Tone" setting for the team-talk (Happy, Encourage, Satisfied, Dissatisfied, Angry).
This would constitute the "Team" aspect if you don't choose to say anything else. It would have a default setting too (Satisfied), meaning you couldn't accidentally have no team talk. It also counters the misinterpretation of what you say (although contradictory settings should produce confusion)

We'd then have a team comment setting, similar to what Amaroq has set out in his post.
Then we'd have the individual options.

Then, alongside that, we should be able to set individual comments.


I'd like the option to explicitly snub the players "Leave them to stew" or similar.
I'd also like the option to make them stay out on the pitch (I've seen this at York recently, the manager wanted the players to have to face up to the angry fans).


I'd agree with Amaroq on the feedback too, especially that we shouldn't have to always seek it. If we are really upsetting our players game after game, he should have the balls to come say so!
Rather than the current feedback screen that is player by player, I'd prefer a general comment, then any specific issues noted (e.g. "The players responded well and were fired up for the next match. However, Richard Brdoie seemed down)

I'd like to see the Team Captain come into play here. He should be able to come to us and say the players are unhappy with the way I'm talking to them.

DJdeMarco

I agree that this area needs a lot more depth (as do quite a few other areas) and think that your ideas are the best I've seen put forward so far by a long way. :thup:

The Gaffovski

In favour of an overhaul too.

What I would particularly like there to be is the option of telling your players the following at half-time :

Examples...

"Right lads, I know we're one up, but let's go and grab a second."

or

"Well done lads, nobody would have expected us to be winning, now let's do everything we can to hold onto the result."

robin_trott_hoof

An overhaul is much needed.

As long as it doesn't end up like media interaction is in the current game - that being that what you say will lift four players, utterly depress another four and leave the others indifferent.

Bumble

An excellent post Amaroq and I couldn't agree more. At the moment team talks feel like something of a magic bullet - they'll either kill you or save your life when really they have much more subtle effects outwith of the match - in fact players and managers have reputations built on their dressing room persona.

Another couple of options I'd like to see mentioned is about asking your team to keep Discipline or Composure.

e.g.
Good Discipline
Pre-Match:They're going to make this a brawl, don't let them get to you
Half-Time:Stay on your feet more lads!
Full-time:You controlled yourselves well

Bad Discipline
Pre-Match:We need to drag them down to our level
Half-time:Hit them harder, bully them!
Full-time:Well done, you took them out of the game.

Composure/Up against it
Pre-Match:Go out and show them what you can do!
Half-time:You wouldn't be here if you hadn't earned it. Prove it to me
Full-time:Well done lads, you've done yourselves proud!

I'm thinking of Composure especially as the antidote to rather than just dismissing your team against much classier opposition than to try and actually give them some steel to them and tell them they've earned it.

As for the discipline, whilst I know some people would argue that setting your tackling does exactly the same job, I'd like to give my team the option to 'let them off the leash' or try and not get drawn in to scuffles and tit-for tat fouls.

mitja

:thup: totally agree.

now I just need to read it

Dave C

I don't know if it's currently implemented this way, but the effect of your team-talk on performance should be relative to the players experience/influence.

What I mean is, if you inspire your captain and best player, then his example should drive on players that maybe didn't take to what you said so well.

If you upset your best player, his mood would rub off on the others, even if they were personally fine with what you said.

By the same token, if you upset your reserve right-back who is in for one match, b ut the rest of the team is fine, there should be no real effect.